From writer/director/producerCasey Affleck, the indie featureLight of My Life, which is part survivalist drama and part coming-of-age story, follows a father (Affleck) and his 11-year-old daughter (Anna Pniowsky), as they navigate a desperate dystopian world where a plague has killed nearly all of the world’s females. As they live on rations and forage in the woods, far from the danger that men can present when it comes to survival, Rag’s dad tries to give his daughter an understanding of the world and its ethics, history and morality, at a time when cruelty is much more likely for her to experience than kindness.
At the film’s Los Angeles press day, Collider got the opportunity to sit down for a 30-minute interview with Casey Affleck and his young co-star Anna Pniowsky, who’s remarkable in her performance, to talk about how the story evolved, whether there was ever the temptation to show more about what led to this dystopian world, what he learned from his previous directing projects (this is his first full-length narrative feature), the benefit of having your co-star also be the writer/director of the project, the directors that he’s watched and worked with that helped his on his path to trying his own hand at it, the casting process for Rag, the editing process and what it took to cut the film down from its three-hour first cut, and who he screened the film for. Affleck also talked about figuring out what he’s going to direct next and how he’d like to take on a big fantasy film, and Pniowsky talked about her desire to turn acting into a future career.
Finally, before getting to the interview, here’s an exclusive clip fromLight of My Life:
Collider: You wrote and directed this, and you’ve been working on it for a long time. What was the seed that started this whole idea? Was it a character, was it specific themes, was it the story itself?
CASEY AFFLECK: I didn’t really have a story, and I’m still not exactly sure what all the themes running through it are. It was just the scenes and the characters. That was the beginning of it, just writing down some scenes between a parent and a kid.
You started this quite a while ago, and had the script done quite awhile ago, which shows how long it takes to get something like this to the screen. Was it always a passion project? Were you always focused on getting this done, however long it took?
AFFLECK: No. In fact, I had other things that I was going to direct, that someone else had written, that were put together in a more traditional way. This was, all the time, just slowly evolving and I thought, “I can’t get some of these other projects done.” We needed a lot of money, or we needed some actor that we were waiting on, so I thought, “I have this very small thing that I can raise the money for, and I can cast it ‘cause I’m in it. All I have to do is find one other person. Why don’t I just go make that?” That’s how that came to be. The path of least resistance, there’s a lot to be said for it.
When you tell a story like this, was there ever a temptation to show more about what happened before, or getting into any of what led up to where the story picks up in the film?
AFFLECK: Definitely, and there were more scenes like that. There were two reasons that I didn’t show more of that. One was that the story was just about the two of them, really. All of the other stuff was just dressing. And the other was practical because, to show all of that other apocalyptic stuff, would cost a fortune. The idea was, can you make a story like this, whether it’sWorld War ZorMad Max, or something, but just not show all of those huge, expensive set pieces, and all of that stuff, and instead do a small character story, within the bigger world.
This isn’t the first time that you’ve directed. Had you learned things, from your previous experiences, that made this any easier, or is every project just so different that it doesn’t actually get easier?
AFFLECK: I can’t speak for anyone else because I don’t know. Some directors, it seems like, with every project, the process is similar. For me, the first thing I directed was 10 commercials for the Sundance Channel, and those were comedies. They were like these little short films, each of them. That was the first thing I did, so in some ways, it was all new, but it was different than this, and it was different than the other movie I made. So, each time that I’ve tried to direct something, the process has been different, the material has been totally different, and everything about it has been different, and I’m happy with that because I don’t want to fall into too much of a groove.
Do you feel like you’re finding what your strengths and weaknesses are, and what you feel you need to focus on, as you do each one?
AFFLECK: I find that I’m learning a little bit more about every aspect of it. I haven’t discovered what my strengths are yet. My crowning achievement is getting from beginning to end. I can’t speak for everything in between.
Anna, as somebody working with Casey, do you feel like you saw strengths in him, as a director, that maybe he didn’t even notice in himself?
ANNA PNIOWSKY: Oh, yeah, for sure. Casey is a very humble person. He’s very self-deprecating. He’s going to give me the death stare during this, but I think something he doesn’t realize about himself, and I’m talking about him like he’s not right beside me, is that he can do so much. He does so much, and he doesn’t give himself any self-recognition. I think he should be more proud of himself because he has done a lot. It’s crazy how much he’s done.
AFFLECK: That’s very sweet. Thank you, Anna.
PNIOWSKY: You’re welcome.
You didn’t know this would also be therapy.
AFFLECK: Yeah, I love it. More. Tell me more.
Anna, is it a different kind of experience for you, to act in scenes with your director?
PNIOWSKY: Yeah. It’s different in the way that, when he would give me direction, he wouldn’t really have to say it. Sometimes he would just change the way he acts, and that would change the way that I would respond to his cue line, or something like that. But I think it was really helpful for me – I don’t know about him – that he was also the director and the writer.
Yeah, because if you have any questions, at least you have the source of all things there with you.
AFFLECK: That’s true. It’s a good point. Sometimes there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Making a movie is inevitably a very collaborative process, no matter what. It’s just the nature of it. It takes that many people. Everyone’s doing a different job, and they all have to work together. But sometimes, it is really helpful to have that moment being created, by just two people. It’s two actors, and the director and writer, all in that little exchange.
Casey, is there a specific director that you’ve worked with, that you’ve watched, or that has directly given advice to you, that you feel has most helped you on the path of being a director?
AFFLECK: They’ve all given me so much. I’ve been able to learn a lot from the people that I’ve been lucky enough to work with. Just to give an answer, I would say Gus Van Sant. I worked with him four times, but also, I worked with him when I was really young – when I was 20, or 18. Those are more formative years, and I was more impressionable and a quicker learner, so I absorbed a lot more from him. He’s just done so much, and he’s so talented and so smart that it was easy to study him. There’s a lot there, and he’s very inclusive. He was happy to patiently teach me things, whenever I wanted to learn, so I’ve taken a lot from him. Especially when I was directing, I was thinking a lot about like things that he would do to get what he wanted.
What was the casting process like for this? How did you go about finding somebody to play such a crucial character to the story as Rag is?
AFFLECK: Well, I was prepared to have it go on for a very long time, and also prepared to say, “Too bad, we didn’t find somebody. Let’s do something else for awhile, and we’ll come back to this and look again next year, when there’s a new crop of people who are the right age.” But after a few months, we found Anna. It really wasn’t a matter of, “Let’s take the best of what’s out there.” We were waiting for someone who was gonna elevate the movie. And Avy Kaufman was the casting director, who’s got a great eye and I totally trust, and she said, “This is definitely someone with a lot to offer.” I saw the tape, and then met with her, and it was clear that she would bring a lot to the movie.
You hear a lot of filmmakers say that, in the casting process, you just know when you find the right person. Did you feel that way?
AFFLECK: I’ve never had that experience, in my whole life, whether it’s with movies, or anything else here. People would be like, “You won the lottery.” And I’d be like, “Should I take the money? I don’t know. Let me think. I’m not sure. Maybe. Okay, I will. No wait.” My thoughts come in pairs, like do and don’t, at the same time. So, I didn’t have that experience because I wanted to be sure. And so, we saw the tape, and then we sat with her and worked with her. Once I saw her doing the thing that I was hoping I would see in the movie, I thought, “It would be greedy to ask for any more than that. She’s already, even just in the audition process, doing things that you could put on screen.” That was probably way past a point where any other director would’ve waited, so I thought, “Okay, let’s cast her and start.”
Anna, did you feel the same way for you, when you came across this character? Did you feel like this was a character that you knew, or did you find the character throughout that process, as you worked on it?
PNIOWSKY: You never really know who your character is until you start, at least, speaking for myself. For me, I never really truly know who my character is because it’s hard to picture, when you’re auditioning, anyone but yourself in the role. That sounds bad, but that’s just hard for me, at least, to do. I just attempt to picture myself as the person, and that takes until we start working on the film. And then, I discover who my character is. At that time, it’s little things, like costume and props, that really help you figure out who your character is, in my opinion.
Are you someone who gets nervous, during the whole audition process? Had you been familiar with who Casey was and his work?
PNIOWSKY: I knew who Casey was. I didn’t know very well, but I was just an 11-year-old girl and I wasn’t very in the acting world yet. But at first, in the beginning years of my career – and I’m saying beginning years, like it’s been so long – I’ve been nervous to do auditions. Now, I’m chill with auditions. Now, I realize that if I get it, that’s awesome. But if I don’t, that’s okay, there’s another opportunity coming.
What is the editing process like for you? Is there a way longer cut of this movie, or were you pretty sure, going in, what you wanted this to be?
AFFLECK: I thought that it had been so carefully planned that it would cut itself, but obviously, that is hubris. When you get to the end, it’s a gigantic mess, and you have to start over, making the whole movie over again, in some sense. That’s what it felt like, until you finally lock picture and you go, “Yeah, that’s exactly what it was, at the very, very beginning.” It’s a weird circuitous journey of discovery and rediscovery, and rejection and acceptance. So, yes, there’s a much longer cut. The first cut was three hours, and then it got down to two and a half. And then, was the very difficult process of getting from two and a half to under two, which was a contractual obligation to deliver a movie under two hours. It’s good because the movie is plenty long. It really takes its time. In some cases, now I watch it and think, “Oh I wish I’d cut there, and cut that.” I think it could be a tiny bit tighter. But I watch it and I can see the things that are missing, but they’re not necessarily needed, even the scenes that I really, really loved that just had to come out. The very long scene, in the beginning of the movie, which was not scripted to be at the beginning of the movie, but it was scripted to be in the beginning of the second act of the movie, I learned, even though it belonged there in the story, it could not live there in the movie. Once you tell people what journey they’re on in the movie, and you go past the inciting incident, so to speak, it’s hard to then put the brakes on and ask them to watch a 12-minute scene of what feels like some irrelevant bedtime story. Momentum wise, it just stopped the whole movie. So, I thought, “If I put it at the beginning, people will sit through it because they’re not sure what they’re caring about yet, and they can just sit there and listen to the story.” That was very helpful. And then, there were a few other scenes that really were hard to lose, but that’s how it goes.
Were there people that you make sure that you screened the film for because you like their advice and you respect what they have to say?
AFFLECK: Yes. One of them was my editor, Dody Dorn, who I’ve known for a long time, and is incredibly smart about movies, how to structure movies, and all that stuff. I’ll also send her scripts and say, “What do you think?” On this one, I didn’t get the opportunity to do that. Definitely, Gus [Van Sant] would be one. I showed it to Andrew Dominik. Sometimes, I just show it to friends. I did do one screening that was just random acquaintances and friends, that was a sampling of people from different careers and ages. I guess there’s two groups. There are the people that are really close to it and me, that can give me hard feedback, that can be honest with me, and that know the project well and know me well. And there are others that I show it to, who don’t know anything about it, at all. Some of the directors that I love and respect the most, I showed it to.
Was there anyone that gave you advice on it, or told you to cut something, and you were like, “No, I’m not listening to you”?
AFFLECK: I’m sure there was, but I didn’t listen to them. I really wanted, on this one, to listen to people more. Every time you say, “No, I’m gonna do it my way. I’m not gonna listen to you. You’re wrong,” invariably, at some point, you think, “Damn, I wish I had listened to them more.” So, I was forcing myself to stay open. I still think it may be a little too esoteric, but that may be a strong word. I resist telling the audience too much and thinking about the audience, when I’m making the movie. I just want to tell the story and be truthful in the moment, and let it become what it wants to become. But I would be a better director, and maybe a better actor, if I were to think about the bigger picture, and give a little bit to the audience, in some cases.
Anna, what’s it like for you to shoot scenes that then aren’t there, and to see what the full and final performance that you gave looks like?
PNIOWSKY: It’s interesting because, honestly, sometimes I don’t remember half the scenes that I filmed. And then, I see it in the movie and I’m like, “Oh, I forgot about that scene.” But then, I’ll think of a certain scene that isn’t in the film. For example, one of my audition scenes, where we were talking about snakes, or something like that, wasn’t in the film. We shot it, but it wasn’t in the film. It doesn’t really affect me. I know that it’s not really my decision.
AFFLECK: Were there scenes that you watched that you didn’t like, the first time you saw?
PNIOWSKY: No. Well, there were a few times when I would think about my acting and be like, “Oh, I said that weird thing.” But, that’s just myself. I’m not going to tell you ‘cause you’re going to obsess about it.
AFFLECK: I will not obsess about it.
PNIOWSKY: Yeah, you will. There was one moment that I hate the most, and it’s not even that bad. It’s not you. It’s me. Okay? It’s the one time that I say, “He’s a doddering old man.”
AFFLECK: Really?
PNIOWSKY: Yeah. I think it’s just myself. And then, I hear myself and I have a little lisp. I don’t know if anyone can hear it but me. And I hear my little Canadian accent. I’m like, “Oh, wow, I’ve changed so much.” Something that’s really interesting about filming and acting is that you can change so much, in a very little time, when you go back and watch things that you did before.
AFFLECK: That’s true. Most people think they’re, more or less, the same person from six months ago, and they didn’t change that much. But when you see so much of yourself, for a condensed period of time, even just a year later, you do realize, “Wow, there are things about me that have changed quite a bit.” So, you didn’t like that part?
PNIOWSKY: I told you! I told you that you would obsess about it.
AFFLECK: I’m not obsessing. I’m just inquiring.
PNIOWSKY: You’re going to be like, “I should probably just take all this back and redo the film.”
AFFLECK: No, I don’t think you’re right. I’m just curious why.
PNIOWSKY: I think it’s just the way I said it. I sound broad, and I don’t like to sound broad.
AFFLECK: What do you mean broad? Do you mean expressive?
PNIOWSKY: Yeah, but more than expressive.
AFFLECK: This is why you shouldn’t watch yourself.
See, it really has become therapy.
AFFLECK: I really do not like to give advice because, who am I? But I will say this confidently, it does not help to watch yourself.
PNIOWSKY: I have to watch myself, though.
AFFLECK: No, you don’t have to watch yourself. That’s something that will make you a little tiny bit self-conscious. That was a perfectly fine moment when you said that. It just might not be comfortably you, but you don’t want to be always comfortably you.
PNIOWSKY: That’s true. One reason I do like to watch myself, is that I like to learn from things, or even other people. It’s hard to put into words, what goes on inside my head.
AFFLECK: All right, fine, then watch yourself.
Casey, after doing this, do you know what you want to direct next?
AFFLECK: Anna’s not a kid. She’s a young woman. But, I like working with kids. I love theHarry Pottermovies. There are so many of those books series that I really like, likeMistborn, and I like fantasy. I loveThe Lord of the RingsandThe Hobbit, and all of that stuff. It’s quite a big leap to make because those are hard movies to direct. You’ve gotta be like Peter Jackson, not just to get the job, but to make it well. So, I’m not sure that I’m up to it yet. There’s a lots of learn, technically and visually, to get better, but that’s something that I would love to someday do, for sure.
Far Bright Starwas something that had been talked about, too. Is that something that you still want to do?
AFFLECK: I do love it. I like that story a lot, but I do wonder, “Who’s gonna see it?” I have those defeatist questions. You start doubting the project and going, “Will anyone wanna watch it? Is it too violent? Is it the right time to make that movie? What is it saying, politically?” I love it and I think that’s a great book series. Those three books would be a great trilogy to make. Right now, it’s just hard to get stuff made that isn’t a sure commercial bet. People just aren’t going to smaller movies, and movies that have a narrower audience aren’t finding a successful theatrical release. Everything is on these devices. Even my kids just watch YouTube videos. It’s a tough time. There’s not as much out there. People have to go see them. And it might just be that these kinds of movies don’t live in theaters anymore. People make them, and you can watch them and get a big TV at home, if you can afford it, and watch it there.
Anna, do you have any idea what you’re going to do next?
PNIOWSKY: No, not really. I’m just going with the flow. If there’s a project that I really like and that I feel for, then I’ll try to land that role. I’m just waiting to see. I still have time, that’s the thing. I’m lucky that I’m starting as a kid. This isn’t my job yet. I’m hoping that it’ll be my job, in the future, but for right now, it’s more of just a hobby.
When it comes to projects, are you looking for characters that interest you, or stories that you think are challenging? What is it that gets you excited?
PNIOWSKY: That’s a good question. I honestly don’t even know, myself. Sometimes I surprise myself, with things that I like. I like to become different people, if that makes sense. In my normal life, I’m just myself, but in acting, I can become a whole different person. Things like that are really cool.
Light of My Lifeis now in theaters and On-Demand.
