Ben Barnesis an actor who’s played a wide variety of characters in film and TV and across different genres, from Prince Caspian inThe Chronicles of Narniato Kirigan inShadow and Bone, and with a littleWestworldandThe Punisherthrown in. Whether the good guy or the antagonist of the story, there are enough layers there to understand or sympathize, even when you don’t agree.
Now, the lifelong music fan has added afull-length album of songsto his resume.Where the Light Gets Inis about the different stages of a relationship – beginnings, tension, sorrow, sex, love, endings, nostalgia – and how our literal and metaphorical scars tell our story. The dozen tracks inspired by a love of soul and pop music showcase a side of Barnes that’s more personal than when he’s portraying someone else, and yet universal in a way that so many people can relate to.
After checking out the album, Collider got the opportunity to chat with Barnes about what led him to name the collection of songsWhere the Light Gets In, how his acting process compares to his songwriting process, who the first person was that he played the songs for, who he turns to for a good critique, how the songs provide insight into who he is, and the personal connection from touring in front of a live audience. He also talked about his experience with theChronicles of Narniafranchise whileGreta Gerwigis currently working on her ownNarniaproject, and how he would like to channel his innerPaul Rudd.
‘Where the Light Gets In’ Was Inspired by the Desire To Find Something Valuable in the Cracks Life Leaves Behind
“I was thinking about the Japanese art form of kintsugi, where you mend something broken with gold.”
Collider: Your album is named after the song,Where the Light Gets In. How many songs had you written before that song? Had you been thinking of other titles before choosing that one?
BEN BARNES: I had been thinking of other titles that were more connected with the experience of relationships. I was looking at some of the song titles, when I had about two-thirds of them, and I consideredStolen Timeas an option because I feel like every precious minute we have on the planet feels a little bit like a stolen moment. The chances of us being that one sperm that met the egg that made it out and made it to being alive is so minimal anyway. It all feels a little bit stolen and precious, in that way. But then, I realized that, as the songs evolve, they stop being about the situation that you’re in, and they just become about you and the person, in general. And then, when you release them, they become about the people that are listening to them. So, I didn’t want it to necessarily be about my experiences, once they were released.
Where the Light Gets Inis the only song I actually wrote with the two members of Maroon 5, Sam Farrar and James Valentine.Once I came up with the little hook for it, I’m not the first person to ever say that, but I remember my Indian friend told me about a word in his language when I scratched my car, that means that when something is tarnished or scratched or broken, it’s good luck because it’s where the good luck gets in. I always thought about that because I’m someone who worries about small things that I shouldn’t. When I wrote this song, I was thinking about that, and I was thinking about the Japanese art form of kintsugi, where you mend something broken with gold, to make something more valuable and more precious after you fix it. I just feel like that’s all of us who are over 18. It’s all of us who have been through anything, which is everyone. I talk about that a little bit on stage because we are the sum of our experience, and all those beautiful and terrible decisions that you’ve ever made that have led you to where you are.
I realized a lot of the songs were thematically in that vein. And then, I had this little cheeky nod on the album cover toShadow and BoneandThe Punisher, where I had facial scars, and I was like, “What would my version of that look like?” Rather than something dark and sinister, it could be something bright. Whilst I obviously have all of my flaws and all of my regrets and all of the things that make me, me, reaching a point in your life where you wouldn’t change them is a very freeing thing. I was hitting that point around the time of writing this, so that’s where it came from.
Did you say to yourself, “Okay, I want to make a full album, so I’m going to sit down and do it,” or is it more fluid than that? Do you just start compiling songs until you realize you have an entire album?
BARNES: I put the EP together out of the necessity of wanting to put something into the world before it was too late to do it, and before I regretted not doing it and being an old man that was never bold enough. At least a couple of the songs on the EP, people really made them their own and found something in them that was worthwhile. And then, doing some of the touring, I just really didn’t want it to end. My vocation is acting. I just finished up on a series (The Institute) based on a Stephen King novel, which I loved doing. I love telling stories in that way. But this is another way of storytelling, and it allows me to have my own creative outlet. I thought, “I can scale this up a little bit and I could do a tour, but then I would need more songs.” I’d been writing a few more songs. Probably enough for another EP, but not enough for an album. And then, I thought it would be good to do a full album. And my friend Hammy (Paul Hamilton), who’s my drummer, came on to manage the music, and it’s been very encouraging and motivating. I started writing with other people, as well.I had a whole book of lyrics and little poems and little snippets that could be turned into songs, so I knew there would be enough material. But then, when I started writing with other people, you get this whole other injection of creativity, especially on the musical side of it, and then it just started becoming what it is.
Are you someone who knows when a song is finished and is the best version of itself that it can be, or do you listen to this album now and still hear ways that you wish you could tweak everything?
BARNES: Of course, yeah. When you’re playing a song live, you feel like you find a new tempo for it, or you find a different way of singing something, or somebody puts in a harmony that wasn’t there or a different instrument. At some point, you just have to make peace with going from a blank page to a full page, and then you have a rewrite and a rewrite and a rewrite, and you have to give it over so it belongs to someone else. I feel like that with my acting stuff, as well. When you’re acting, I’ve had a lot of practice of only having the next four to five hours to shoot the scene, and then it never exists again and you may never do it again, and somebody else will edit it. At least in this instance, I got to choose the versions of the songs that went on there and have some autonomy and a bit of control, which felt very good, in terms of putting out what I wanted to put out. But of course, when you watch the show back or when you listen to the record back, you always think of things. It’s a photo album. It’s a diary. When you go back and read your diary from when you were 12 years old, it’s hilarious.When you look at anything you made, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago, you scrunch your nose up at it.But that’s where you were then, and that’s all you could be then, and you mustn’t punish yourself for that.
Ben Barnes on His 20-Year Journey to Releasing His EP ‘Songs for You’ and Why He Wanted to do Music Videos
He also talks about ‘Shadow and Bone’ Season 2 and doing an episode of Guillermo del Toro’s horror anthology series ‘Cabinet of Curiosities.’
As you get older, do you ever find yourself coming across an old acting gig, from a movie or a TV show, and you’re like, “Oh, God, I would have done that so differently had I known everything I know now”?
BARNES: Of course. It took me a very long time to feel proud of work that I was doing in the acting world.I probably had 10 or 15 years of doing it before I watched something back and went, “Oh, I like this.”It’s hand in hand with perspective and just zooming out and realizing we’re all floating through space on a rock and it doesn’t really matter, so you might as well give it your all. And then, you try to find a way to be proud of what you’ve done, which is not necessarily easy. Certainly, anything from the first 10 years of my career, I look at and I’m like, “If I could just do that again, things would be different.” But do I even really want things to be different? Not really. I’m a very, very, very fortunate man. In terms of career, I’ve surpassed all expectations of what I thought it would be when I was a teenager, dreaming of being an actor, so I’m the luckiest.
Who was the first person you played these songs for, and what was their reaction?
BARNES: Probably my dad because everything I love about music, I owe to him.He’s recorded his own album, in his mid-70s.He just loves music and he’s going to release it. From what he’s played me, it’s gonna be brilliant and I support him. He came up on stage in London with me and played guitar, when I played in London last year. I know he’s gonna give it some positive feedback, which will encourage me to move forward.
Is there anyone you intentionally go to for the tough feedback that you feel you need?
BARNES: That’s the musicians themselves. They support me in such an incredible way, with their skill and their passion. They’re so supportive and wonderful. I care about all the people who’ve played with me and for me. They’re the ones that are the likeliest to be the most direct and critical because I ask them to be. They’ll give advice about not pushing too hard in a certain verse, or a certain part of the song not really working or being too boring. I rely on the producers and the musicians themselves because I like a really collaborative process where people aren’t afraid to voice an idea.
Ben Barnes Wants His Music To Be As Raw as Possible To Keep Things Authentic
“I’m not really thinking about how I’m singing, I’m just thinking about the feelings."
I love a very stripped-down song, and I feel like “Far Too Soon” has that quality. As the artist, is it fun to do something like that, or does it feel even more vulnerable when you have very little to hide behind?
BARNES: You’ve put the answer in your question, which is that it feels extra special because it’s so stripped down and vulnerable. The fact that I’m able to do that, and present something that is naked and raw like that, feels very cathartic. That was the hardest song to record vocally because it did feel almost sacred to me, which is why I’m not singing it on tour. It felt like it was just for me, really. I definitely wanted to include it on the album because the albums I love have little moments like that.I like it to sound as raw as possible.I’m always getting them to take effects off the voice and leave the creaking of the piano lid. I’ve done a lot of very shiny jobs in my life, and I wanted this to feel as authentic as I could make it.
Do you see any similarities to your process of working on and working through a song, and your process of developing, understanding and playing a character, or do they work very different muscles?
BARNES: I’m very deliberate when I’m plotting a character. I’m also very deliberate when I’m putting a song together. I was trying to sandwich parts of myself into the characters, and parts of my ideology or how I felt about things, where they didn’t necessarily fit. I’m always going to showrunners and directors and saying, “I think it would be great if I phrase this line in this way for this reason.” Sometimes they accept that collaboration, and sometimes they don’t. It depends on how strongly you’ve made your argument, I suppose. With the music, I’m the same, but I’m having that conversation with myself, in terms of whether it’s the most poetic or the most raw, or whatever you’re feeling, way to deliver this feeling or this thought. It’s the similarities in my deliberate nature, rather than in the storytelling. When I’m singing, I’m not really thinking about how I’m singing, I’m just thinking about the feelings.Every acting performance I give is probably informed, in some way, by all the TV and films I’ve ever watched. Even more so with music, the way that I sing or the way that I write is informed by the music I love.I start writing a song and I’m like, “Oh, this sounds a little bit like Elton John,” because I loved listening to that when I was young. Or if someone is playing a guitar solo, I’m like, “Oh, this sounds like a Brian May/Queen guitar solo.” Or I’ll be like, “This song sounds great, but could it be a bit more like Ray Charles?” Some of it is on purpose, but some of it is infused.
10 Ben Barnes Movies and TV Shows to Watch Before ‘Shadow & Bones’ Season 2, According to Rotten Tomatoes
Shadow and Bone will be returning on March 16th.
Do you also feel like it gives you any insight into yourself, as you’re reflecting on feelings or emotions in the music that you didn’t think about before?
BARNES: It’s the same as talking something through with a friend and they tell you of a parallel experience, or they phrase it in a way you hadn’t thought about. Some people write in diaries. I don’t, really. I don’t like writing things down in prose. It doesn’t ever feel very natural to me. But for a lot of people I know, it’s very helpful. I’m sure some people put themselves into characters in novels and distribute their thoughts and sort them out that way. There are a million ways to reflect and to share, I’m sure. That’s what you do with music, you share it.
One of the interesting things about an artist who is both an actor and a singer is that when you’re acting, you’re playing these different characters who aren’t you, but when you’re singing your music on a stage, it’s at least a version of you. Does it feel very different, in that way, when you’re on stage in front of that live audience of people? Does it feel much more personal in that sense?
BARNES: It absolutely feels more personal. But it depends on the day and the venue and the audience. It’s so alive. On this tour, there were certain rooms where I couldn’t hear very well, or I didn’t sleep and my voice felt tired. But then, the audience will pick you up and make you feel really validated in who you are, and that will be wonderful, or vice versa. You might be feeling great, and then something feels a bit off, and then you feel like you have to try a bit harder. We have that in social situations all the time. Sometimes with red carpet interviews, I feel like I’m being boring, or I don’t like my outfit, or whatever it might be, and then you push a bit harder and you don’t feel like you’re being yourself. It’s working towards that acceptance where you feel like you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing. That’s the best feeling.
Do you feel like someone who listens to this album and these songs would get some insight into you, or does it feel a little less specific, personally, in that way?
BARNES: My hope is that they feel some kind of connective tissue between the experience of others and their own experience. When I listen to Adele singing, “Nevermind, I’ll find someone like you,” I’m not thinking of who the “you” was for her. I’m thinking of my own experiences, and whether I would want to find someone, like an ex or whatever it might be. You translate it for yourself. My hope is that people do it in that way.But you may certainly know a lot more about me by listening to this album than if you didn’t.It’s the same with any Instagram profile. Yes, it’s not the real world and people can present their life in any way they choose to, but they still have to choose it. And so, you can tell a lot about someone by what they choose to share. This is what I’m choosing to share with the world, so you can tell a lot about me by the fact that that is my priority.
Essential Ben Barnes Performances From Prince Caspian to The Darkling
From fantasy heroes to Marvel villains, Ben Barnes has run the gamut of genre entertainment.
When you’re in a business as long as have been with acting, things have a tendency to come back around and now there’s a newNarniaproject on the horizon. What advice would you give the cast of that movie?
BARNES: Advice that I got at the time was to just enjoy the adventure. I don’t expect a cast coming into it now as kids to have grown up necessarily with theNarniabooks. They may have. But for me, it was very special for that reason. I was stepping into something that I knew from being eight years old, and I really valued and appreciated. One of my skills as an actor, I think, is to really enjoy the experience of making it, being in New Zealand or being in Prague and being on these incredible sets and being around credible people.My best friend in the world, I made on that film.So, they should just enjoy the experience of actually making it, and the rest of it will be what it is. It’ll fall into place, or it won’t. It’ll capture people’s hearts and imaginations, or it won’t. So long as you’re kind of present in the moment and giving it your all, then that’s all you can really offer anyway. So, I wouldn’t deign to offer any advice on how to portray the characters or anything.
If the opportunity were to arise, would you be interested in doing a role in it?
BARNES: I thought about that, but there’s not really much for men of my age in those books, so I don’t know. I don’t know what that would be. I could do a voice.
If anybody could come up with something interesting, Greta Gerwig certainly could.
BARNES: That’s so true. I could do a Mr. Tumnus or I could voice Reeipcheep the mouse, or something. It’s not a phone call I’ve received yet.
Ben Barnes Is Looking To Take On a Role That’s Light and Fun
“I’m making my own little rom-coms in my music videos.”
You’ve played a lot of antagonists in your acting career. When are we going to get the romantic comedy and/or musical era of your work?
BARNES: Soon, I hope. I’m making my own little rom-coms in my music videos. I’m playing a very, very good man in this new Stephen King show,The Institute. He’s an ex-cop, and he’s a thoughtful man who can’t help but feel like he has to be there for people. I was really excited to play someone who just has a real sense of decency about them. Hopefully, I’ll do something musical, or something light and fun. I’m trying to get it out there. When I make my little social media posts, I try to make funny little things.I would love to do something like that on a bigger scale and channel my inner Paul Rudd.
When it comes to romantic comedy, would you want to do something more modern-day or something in a different time period?
BARNES: I like modern-day stuff. It’s just that telephones and texting make things very difficult. That’s why the golden age of the ‘80s and early ‘90s were so fantastic for rom-coms. You couldn’t communicate directly, so you had to run to the church or break up the press conference, in the vein ofWhen Harry Met Sally,You’ve Got Mail, andNotting Hill. That sort of thoughtful rom-com is definitely something I want to do in my life, at some point. I just need someone to send me a script that works.
Where the Light Gets Inis now available. Check out the music video for “One More Minute”:
